The private equity secondary market is booming—but most people don’t realize how dramatically it’s evolved, or where it’s heading next. Whether you’re a seasoned investor or totally new to secondaries, this episode peels back the curtain on one of the fastest-growing corners of the financial world.

In this episode, Mike Bego, Managing Partner of Kline Hill Partners, joins host Patrick Stroth to give an insider’s perspective on how the secondary market for private equity is shifting, why secondaries are suddenly top-of-mind for investors, and what you can expect from this year’s milestone industry event, Secondaries Day.

You’ll discover…

• Why the secondary market exploded from a $5 billion niche to a $200 billion+ industry—and what still holds it back
• What really goes on behind the scenes of an LP-led versus a GP-led secondary transaction
• The unexpected career path that brought Mike Bego to the forefront of secondaries—and the practical lessons he learned from dot-com bust, “Chernobyl”
• The biggest misconceptions and emerging risks in continuation vehicles (and how to spot the red flags)
• How Secondaries Day is shaping the conversation and community for private equity insiders—from power networking to charity lunches and even pickleball

Mentioned in this episode:

• Previous episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mike-bego-secure-smarter-insurance-for-smoother-transactions/id1378697061?i=1000663881278
• https://klinehill.com/
• mike.bego@klinehill.com

Transcript

Patrick Stroth: Hello there. I’m Patrick Stroth, trusted authority in executive and transactional liability and national practice leader for mergers and acquisitions for Liberty Company Insurance Brokers, where we provide peace of mind with great care. Welcome to M&A Masters, where I speak with the leading experts in mergers and acquisitions, and we’re all about one thing here, that’s a clean exit for owners, founders, and their investors.

Today, I’m joined by Mike Bego, managing partner of Kline Hill Partners. Founded in 2015, Kline Hill Partners is an investment firm focused on the private equity secondary market with industry-leading capabilities in the small deal space. Last year, I had the pleasure of having Mike on the show, as he is the authority in secondaries transactions.

On October 15th, Kline Hill Partners will host their annual secondary day in New York City, and with that event coming up, Mike has graciously agreed to come and rejoin me on the podcast, and we’re going to recap our conversation from last year about secondaries transactions, and then also look at what we can look forward to this year in the fall when we meet again. Mike, after 160 plus episodes of M&A Masters, you are the third person whom I have the pleasure of saying, welcome back to the show. Thanks again for coming.

Mike Bego: Patrick, thanks so much for having me again. It’s always a pleasure to talk to you. And think you do great work. And it’s awesome that you’re putting all this content and information out in the industry. And for me, it’s fun to do. So thank you.

Patrick: So Mike, before we get into secondaries, let’s start with Kine Hill Partners. Tell us about your shop.

Mike: Yeah, thanks, Patrick. Kline Hill Partners we are a diversified secondary fund manager. I started the firm in 2015, literally out of the basement. Out of the gates, I was, you know, picking the first chair, picking out high-quality pens, but in, like, more seriously, I was calling around the whole secondary industry. I was picking everyone’s brains at different firms about what are the best aspects of their firms and how to learn from them, and how to build those great aspects into Kline Hill.

From a strategy perspective, we really wanted to focus from the get-go on investing in the less competitive spaces within secondaries. And for what that’s meant to us, initially, on the limited partnership side, it’s meant buying into transactions that are smaller in total size than where most of the industry operated. So on the LP side of the industry, which we’ll get into in a minute, but that’s about half of the total volume. Most deals are between 100 million and a billion dollars.

A lot of firms are there, and they provide great liquidity to limited partners. The lower end of the market, below 50 million, and especially below $20 million per transaction, there simply aren’t that many buyers who provide a great service to the sellers. And so that’s where Kline Hill focuses on the limited partnership side, and we’ve done over 750 deals. So in 10 years that that’s a lot.

Last year, it was a lot over 100, closer to 160. And the second line of business that we have is on the GP-led side. So we lead about 10 different deals per year. Typically, buy out lower middle market and really continuation vehicles below $250 million. Again, we’re leading those deals. And then we also have a tech secondary platform, and we really benefit a lot from a partnership we have with a seed fund to fund manager a group called Cendana. And when you package all this together, what we’ve built up today is a firm with five and a half billion of AUM.

We are now in over 900 different managers, different private equity funds from the secondary transactions that we’ve done. We also have a primary program that has us in over 50 managers, which should be set to be closer to 100 in the next 18 to 24 months. And we’ve got a team of 65 people with offices here, headquartered in Greenwich. We have an office in Zurich, a great, amazing team over in the Philippines, and we’re opening up in London later this year.

Patrick: Wow, Mike, that’s substantially larger for Kline Hill Partners than when we were talking a year ago. Now, before we get a little bit deeper with that, a lot of us end up where we are, and we weren’t born this way. We kind of had a calling. And you’re calling was secondaies need to insurance. Real quick, how did you get into the secondaries market to begin with, to then set up the whole structure for Kline Hill?

Mike: Well, Patrick, if I had a calling to secondaries, it took me a long time to realize that. So I really got an awful lot of experience in some great areas, good and tough times on the way to secondaries. But my background was in the 1990s, I was working in supply chain software. Initially, I was running projects to help very large manufacturing companies, think Fortune 50, schedule their factories, and I got more involved into the sales aspect of that software in the second half of the 90s.

Eventually, the company was bought by Oracle. Then I was in Columbia Business School. I started right out of Columbia in May of 2000, going into venture capital. So I was investing in and helping manage software companies, and that was right as the .com bust was hitting. So definitely saw how that environment panned out in a time when cash disappeared. So it was a great learning experience, although it was definitely a hard time to manage through.

So did that for a few years, and then I ran a turnaround. It’s like the supply chain focus aspect of the turnaround of a cosmetics company for about a year. And then I was at McKinsey and Company. And so, while I was at McKinsey, which was an awesome experience. It was like a second MBA for me, I really realized that I wanted to get back in the investing world.

And I actually did like everything I could to try to get jobs. I called friends, looked online, I spoke with recruiters, and I still remember one recruiter in New York City told me that private equity funds hire from investment banks. They hire from existing other private equity firms. And based on my background, I would never get into private equity. So that was it, I was done.

Patrick: There you go. There’s the pep talk for you.

Mike: So with that encouragement, I continued to work at it, and my business school had posted a position online with a secondary firm out of New York City, and I went to meet with them, and I still remember at the time, that was when the secondary industry was closer to $5 billion in annual volume, which is quite small. nd they told me that they felt they were as much trying to pitch me, that the industry was a real industry, and they were a real firm as I was trying to pitch them that I was a good candidate.

And trying to get back into the world of private equity, to me, it was super interesting as a prospect, because it had A, a much more risk-adjusted approach to private equity. Look, I was just in the venture capital world in May of 2000, and it was, personally, like a slog. So it wasn’t just that was a tough time to invest, but I had business school debt. I got more debt from that experience, and so I know what risk can mean from a few different levels.

Patrick: You had Chernobyl hit right at the outside of your career. That had to make an impression.

Mike: Yeah. And there’s a whole other podcast on that experience, which was a great learning experience. And so I saw secondaries as highly diversified, you’re investing in these funds that are several years old, so a lot of the losers are gone. And also a great learning experience, because you’re investing in so many different funds and sectors and companies, you get to see and learn a lot. I would say one thing I really enjoyed from my job that I had in 2000 on the venture side, was I was actually helping manage, and I ran one company, and that I thought was a great experience.

You don’t get that so much in secondaries, but I think it still is a great trade. You don’t have that, but you have everything else I mentioned, plus a great window into the world of limited partners, both as a limited partner of other private equity funds and then on the fundraising side. So it’s been a great experience, and from a career perspective, it’s a fantastic industry to get into.

Patrick: And when you think about the subject of secondaries, because it in the last couple years, it’s become top of mind, or the awareness is substantially larger. Because, as you mentioned in the beginning of your career, the market was about 5 billion. Today it’s more than 30 times that size. And so there’s a lot of traction going on. Before we get too deep into secondaries, give us a quick overview for context. What are secondaries? And let’s distinguish between the two major buckets, which are the GP-led secondaries and the LP-led secondaries.

Mike: Thanks, Patrick. I think it’s super to start with the 101 of what we’re talking about, because hopefully, there are a lot of highly experienced people who’ve been around the industry for a long time, and maybe some are not as familiar. So first of all, the industry invests in private funds, private equity funds. They can be venture funds, growth funds, buyout funds, and those are structured as typically 10-year vehicles that can extend for a few years.

And limited partners commit capital into these vehicles. The capital is typically called over the first three to five years, and then those investment funds will purchase interests in companies. Sometimes buy companies outright. They will then work to help grow and develop those companies. And there’s a lot that goes into building value in those underlying companies.

And then, ideally, they would hope to exit those companies over, say, the next four to eight years. But in practice, a lot of those companies can take much longer. And so these limited partners who provided the initial capital into those funds, sometimes their circumstances change, they may want to draw capital out for other purposes, other investments.

Who knows, but they want to get some liquidity before it naturally comes from those companies getting bought. And so they’ll enter into what’s called a limited partner, an LP deal, and they’ll work with a fund like Kline Hill Partners. Typically, they’re selling not just a single fund, but a portfolio of funds, and a secondary fund firm like ours will come in. We’ll look at all of the underlying companies. We’ll determine what value each company is worth, basically studying the companies and figuring out what we think they’ll exit for down the road.

That will help us determine, after subtracting out fees and carry and other costs that might be incurred at the fund level. So we come up with how much cash we’ll be getting. We know we project the timing of the cash, and that determines what we can pay. And so we go and purchase that pool of assets from the seller, we’ll transfer each fund individually, and we will become the limited partner of record with the underlying funds. And that is an LP deal.

Now that’s about half of the market today. The other half of the market today are what is called GP-led deals, or general partner-led deals. And so if you think about it, that fund manager who is hoping to exit the companies in four to eight years, as mentioned, some of those companies may take longer, or there might just be a star company which is already done really well, and the manager wants to simply deliver more value to its investors sooner, they’ll take either a single company or a portfolio of companies and approach a firm like Kline Hill Partners, and this is a big part of our business as well.

We will, at Kline Hill, we focus typically, on the single company example. We will provide the capital, along with partners of ours to buy out the one of those investments in the company they have. The limited partners in the fund can elect to either take our capital as that company has pulled out of the fund, and then they’ll get that liquidity, which is a great outcome in the private equity world.

Alternatively, they can continue on with the transaction, and instead of taking the cash, they can have direct exposure to that company in a vehicle that we’re setting up with the fund. And that’s also called a continuation vehicle. So a GP-led deal or a continuation vehicle. It’s called a continuation vehicle because the LPs have a choice. They can roll or sell and potentially continue on with the asset.

Patrick: For general partner, you’ve got one of these assets, one of these companies. You don’t want to get rid of it because you have to, because there’s this, you know, timetable, or a timeline that’s been set up, and you want to keep it going, because naturally they think there’s more growth. And so they have partners, the limited partners, who are expecting to exit. And so you can facilitate that and just restructure the capital stack to keep that gem company going forward.

Mike: And so look at in the industry, the these star companies on I’m not an average, but I’d say 75% of them have delivered a two and a half x or more so far on the portfolio. And actually, with the Kline Hill continuation vehicles that we do, the average return for companies before we’re buying them is over three and a half times, and it’s actually a lot larger than three and a half. But there are a couple outliers that were not fully counting.

But they are companies that have been highly successful. And one thing, Patrick, I’d point out is I’ve talked with a number of managers about what are the causes for what goes wrong in their portfolio when transactions don’t work out, and it typically or often boils down to two main causes, especially in some of the smaller transactions. And one is, sometimes the numbers are funny.

So these buyers do a lot of due diligence, and they do a lot of, you know, hire experts, and they go and look at the numbers, but sometimes they’re not getting what they think they’re always getting, and that’s a very important thing to do. And second thing is, sometimes they just didn’t completely understand the business or the business model.

And so if you think about it, with the continuation fund, we’re buying into companies that have already been highly successful, then some of these problems that you know can come up, they typically come up in the first year or two of these deals. And so these are highly de-risk transactions because of the level of knowledge from the general partners after years of working with successful companies.

Patrick: Yeah, they’ve got the track record out there, and so that pushes through. So I can see that happening. I also want to point out that in the show notes today, we will have a link to our original conversation where you talked about this. We had a more granule, detailed level of secondaries transactions. So I invite everybody to go check out that.

Now, Mike, this time last year, the estimate was the market for secondaries was about $150 billion which I believe the industry cleared that threshold easily. What happened last year that created that momentum to get from below 150 to really excel that threshold? And then what do you see going forward?

Mike: So look, there are a few different things that have driven the volume growth for this year. I’d say that if you look at it, there’s cash raised, there’s high prices, and for the GP-led part of the market, there’s just continued momentum growth there. So from the cash raise standpoint, it’s pretty interesting. If you look at the dry powder in the industry at the start of the year, it’s uh, Evercore looks at those numbers, and the volume for that year ends up being 80 to 100% of the starting dry powder for the last 10 years.

Patrick: Wow.

Mike: And so if the market’s sort of like an Energizer Bunny where, you know, it had, there’s the capital I’m gonna go invest it. And so the secondary market is highly prolific on putting the capital out. And part of the reason there is even at $200 billion, that’s only a couple percent of the total nav in the market. So there’s so much out there to buy that it’s very easy to deploy to the capital in the industry.

Second thing is secondary funds in almost all vintages, since the early 90s, they’ve delivered double-digit net IRRs for their investors. So it’s a great place for investors to park their capital. Secondary funds have decades of experience getting good returns, and so they’re happy to deploy it. And in the last six months, for to kick off the year, there’s been high pricing. So you’re talking around 90 cents as of the record date. And so it’s been more Neiman Marcus pricing for the seller. So pretty attractive to get rid of all the assets.

Patrick: So it’s been a seller’s market, as we go through then. There was a balance, as we’ve talked about this, between the GP-led secondaries, the LP-led, they’ve been largely 50/50, you know, 55/45 between the two. Where are they now? Which bucket has more transactions or trending up as a percentage?

Mike: Look. The LP side of things is still a little bit the majority. But like you said, it’s close to 55/45. On the GP-led side, it’s also pretty even between GP-led deals, continuation vehicles that are single company deals and those that are multi-asset. I think there’s been a slightly higher volume of multi-asset, but things lean so far a little bit LP. I would say over the longer term, it’s possible that you see just a very large increase in volume of GP-led deals. And the reason there is the industry has had, you know, three years and running now of much lighter liquidity than everyone would like.

So there’s a lot of value sitting there, and everyone wants to convert it to cash, and the IPO market is still relatively slow. M&A is slow, and CVs are a technology that can really unlock a ton of cash and value for everyone. And they’re very attractive for not only funds to get liquidity of their LPs, but they also are higher performing with regards to returns versus buyout funds. And that’s based on a study done by a firm, I think it’s HEC that partnered with Evercore, and they’ve had a little stronger performance.

Patrick: If we look at the macroeconomic environment that we’re in today, a year ago, the loan overhanging issue in the world, but in America and in the economy was the election. And there was a belief, you know, I had it, that once the election was decided, one way or the other, once it’s decided, everybody will know what’s ahead of us, and then people can move forward with their decisions and make plans and move forward. And so I had the hope that there was going to be a lot of robust M&A for example.

Since then, we’ve had the concern of uncertainty. We had the one big, beautiful bill. Was it going to pass or not? We have the tariff issue, lot of other things going on. What do you see macro that’s impacted secondaries? You said you started off the year strong, that is impacting it now. And how do you see the trend going as we get, the budget’s been passed, the tariff issue is waning a bit. What do you see happening?

Mike: Look, I think we’re in a long-term trajectory of growth for the secondary industry. So it’s really going to continue to grow, say, 10 to 20% on average per year, last year there this year may end up being closer to 30% but, you know, an average at least 10, you know, maybe pushing 20%. And there’s things that are helping it grow and things that are maybe slowing it down a little bit.

You pointed out about some of the macro uncertainty, the big, beautiful bill, you know, elections and those definitely can pause the volume a little bit. I’d say that the lack of liquidity has been a tailwind for the industry. And if you if you look at where things are heading, it’s there’s just sort of a long-term trajectory of growth. It ties back again to IPOs and M&A being extremely difficult for for getting exits.

There are 30,000 buyout companies that are out there, and 15,000 of them are over five years old, and so that’s just a huge volume of companies that are going to need to be processed. I’d also say that with some of the geopolitical uncertainty, things like Ukraine, that’s something that may actually be wrapping up, not necessarily from next week, but I think in the next few months, we may see that wrapping up.

But one of the bigger problems also right now, and why, I think a decent reason why there is liquidity is valuation. So some view the valuations, for example, buyout and maybe venture, as being overvalued. And so the problem is, if you carry a company at too high of a value, and then you go to try to sell it and all the offers are 20% below where it is, that’s not an attractive sale for you to do.

I was talking to a friend who’s at a buyout fund, and I asked him, not at your firm, but at other firms, how are valuations relative to what the companies are worth? And his quote was, well, let me put it this way, 0% of the companies are undervalued. I think that’s a good example of where valuations may be falling. You know that said the industry has been fixing the problem in two ways. One is these are growing healthy companies.

So quarter after quarter, they’re growing, they’re creating value, and those companies aren’t getting marked up as much as the values they’re creating. And the second thing is, with the public stocks at all-time highs, that does help you with the multiples that buyers can pay to pick up these businesses, and therefore what they’re worth. And so that is something that’s slowly getting a little bit better,

Patrick: Okay, and as with anything, there’s always somebody, as I talked to you earlier, that anything that’s positive, there’s always going to be somebody out there critiquing it. I mean, there are people that critique Santa Claus. There have been a couple of news items out there on a cynical or less-than-positive view of continuation vehicles. Key part is the secondaries and everything.

And I’m just curious, anything that’s successful is also going to get hyper-scrutinized. Your comments on, with regard to, I guess it’s like caveat emptor, buyer beware, if you’re looking at if your funds, if you have an opportunity for a continuation vehicle, because, for a variety of reasons, they’re not what they’re all cracked out to be. What do you say about that? Is it just overgeneralized or specific cases? What do you think?

Mike: Look, I think there are a couple of valid issues that LPS have had with them over the years. However, I’d say by and large, they’re mostly all very high-quality transactions that are really good for everyone. But, so look, so a couple of the issues LPS have. One is the notice period that they get to decide on these transactions. So it can be as short as a couple of weeks. Even a month can be a short period of time for groups to process these decisions.

And also this is not something LPS have been geared towards processing as the industry has grown up over the last 30 years. GP-led deals are new. This is something people have had to learn a lot to understand. And so, so one is the processing time. Two is just understanding the technology and how continuation vehicles work. I would say that things have improved with that regard, as LPS have seen them come through marquee high-quality firms have done a great job processing some of these.

So that’s improved the sentiment quite a lot. Additionally, LPs really do appreciate the capital coming back, and there are a lot of GPs that are working hard to do that, and so I think that’s appreciated and aligns everyone. What I would say, though, Patrick, is, is, there have been a few examples in the industry where GPs have done transactions that LPS have been very unhappy with. And this is, this is definitely the substantial minority.

But one example I had heard of, for example, was, I think it was like a European fund group had forced their LPs through a transaction, and they did not let them they did not let them roll. They forced them to sell, and they set an extremely low price. I forget exactly what it was, but say, like a 25% discount, and it was extremely unpopular.

And so I think what can happen is, one, iy can tarnish a number of LP’s views and can turn them against them for a while. Even though the other 95% of what’s gone through has been great and ones where everyone’s working really hard to make sure everyone’s comfortable. But there have been, like, a couple of bad examples, but for the most part, I think they’re great.

Patrick: Yeah, I think with solid performance, there are some people that have the idea that, okay, well, there is no such thing as gravity anymore in this universe. And while there’s going to be occasional and some will have, but that’s the risk with everything, with investments in anything, you know, whether IPO, M&A, all that. And that’s a great transition for us when we talk about risk, and that’s with rep and warranty insurance, which has gone from 5% usage rate in mergers and acquisitions because it does three things.

It transfers financial risk away from the parties. It speeds and facilitates a transaction closing smoother and lowers the cost of negotiations. Number three, if there are claims, they pay claims. So it’s now 95% of any middle market deal has some form of rep and warranty. How is it with regard to secondaries? Good, bad, or indifferent, Mike, don’t listen to me. What’s been your experience of rep and warranty for secondaries, both LP and GP?

Mike: Yeah. Look, I think overall it’s great to have the option for rep and warranty insurance. So look, we’re often working with sellers who need to terminate vehicles, and so we might want to close a deal at the end of the year. They might want to take all of the cash they receive, give it to their investors, and immediately close that vehicle so they don’t have to keep filing paperwork and incurring fees and be done with it.

However, typically, we look for these representations and warranties that protect us. So if some of the numbers were wrong, if they didn’t transfer us enough money, if the size of the interest that they’re selling to us might have had some error, whatever it might be, we want to keep the sellers on the hook to pay us that money, and that can go as long as, say, 18 months or a couple years, until we are 100% positive that we’ve gotten and our limited partners have gotten every penny that we deserve from the purchase price we’re paying.

Now, there’s a conflict there. We want this long period to make sure that we’re getting all the value we’re supposed to. They want to wrap up their vehicles. And so this rep and warranty insurance is definitely a great tool to bridge the gap, and so you can enter into these contracts that will allow for that.

I would say that it is a bit more fit for some of the larger transactions, and so it’s a little more difficult on the smaller end of the market. And so that’s a risk where we would have to price into our purchase price to the seller to accommodate for something like that. And also, as always, do like super thorough diligence, but it’s a great technology. For most of the markets, it’s a great thing to do with, perhaps the main use case, being narrowing this waiting period.

Patrick: Yeah, the response I get from M&A attorneys and the attorneys involved in the secondaries market is they’ll just look and say, I can’t remember ever seeing a claim or a loss that would have been not insurable. But just there are very, very few losses. nd our response to that is, well, very few or low risk doesn’t equal zero risk. There could be something out there.

And where we hope this does serve as a tool to facilitate the liquidity process getting out. So those that want to get their money and exit cleanly and get all their money out, the other side isn’t sitting there hoping that nothing happens, because there is a source of remedy. So we like to see that, and we hope, as the secondary market grows, the presence of rep and warranty, particularly in the LP side, will pick up.

But it’s no different from M&A. Like I said 10 years ago, it was a it was unique. Now, rep and warranty is ubiquitous out there. So Mike, as we start looking, because we’ve got October and I’m going to blink and we’ll already be there. We’ve got Secondaries Day coming up. Talk about not necessarily the agenda, but what should attendees look forward to? I mean, we’ve got a great conversation going here with a lot of trends you’ve talked about. But you know, what can we expect? What are you hoping to get with secondaries day? Why should people attend?

Mike: So look, I think three main things. So first is, it’s great for meeting people. It’s great for networking. It’s great for comparing notes with other people. Second thing is, it’s educational. There’s a lot of great content. We have panels with brokers and speakers, and there are a lot of just great things to learn. And third, hopefully it’s a bunch of fun. So not only do we have a really fun we don’t, you don’t have the celebrities, and we don’t have the sports players, but we have secondary investors. How do you beat that? Right?

Patrick: Yes.

Mike: So the schedule for the secondary day in 2025 is going to be on the evening of October 14th. There’s going to be a women’s and secondaries event, and that’s for women all over the industry, to get together, to network, to get to know each other, to have contacts to help their career. And then on the 15th is the main day, we kick off in the morning with a panel of advisors in the space.

We’re gonna go through and talk about the trends and developments in the industry. We have a charity lunch for the charity called Fiverr that helps youth with their lives and careers and and it helps people who are maybe less advantaged in their situations. And then there’s a buyer dinner, and that is for secondary fund buyers in the industry to get together and network.

For the first time, we’re looking to put together an advisor event, because we had left them out in years before. So they will be separate events, but we will have something for them as well. And then it’s all going to wrap up on Thursday with a golf scramble at Greenwich Country Club. And for those who don’t golf, we usually have pickleball or something like that. So it’s a great event. I encourage anyone in the industry to attend.

Patrick: As I was preparing the notes when we were talking, I said, yeah, Mike, let’s talk about reasons why people should go or people should return to it. I was like, who are we kidding? The people who went last year, they’re all going to be here this coming year. But as for the new attendees, I think it’s great.

You’ve got all of this experience and perspective in one place and in the days of post-pandemic, we’re still dealing with Zoom and so forth. The power of having the personal connections with folks is unmatchable now we can’t go any further without touching on one thing. Mike, that’s a big development. You have joined me in the podcast sphere with Secondary Snapshot podcast. Tell us about it real quick. What is it, and where can our listeners find that?

Mike: Yeah, awesome. Thanks, Patrick. So look, I started providing content to the industry a long time ago. I had a WordPress account and as actually blogging a little bit. And then I found podcasts in the industry to be great, you or like any types of podcasts, I think there are great ways to get knowledge and information. I’m talking to interesting people like yourself all the time, and so it’s not that much harder when I’m going to catch up with someone just to make it a podcast.

And I think upfront, it took me a little bit of time to set up the whole you know, you’ve got to get like, I have a microphone. You have to figure out how to post them all. Fortunately, we’ve got a great team here at Kline Hill, and so now it doesn’t take me personally much longer than the actual time of the conversation to do one of them. And I find, for me, it’s super engaging to connect with industry leaders, to provide great content for the industry.

I’m learning what’s going on from doing them. I’m actually in each one. I’m taking pages and pages of notes, because I’m actually asking them things that I care about, and they’re the top things in the industry. And we’re bringing in people who are driving where the industry is heading. And so it’s been a ton of fun. Like you said, it’s Secondary Snapshot. It’s on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and it’s been a blast. And I can’t believe, Brad, you’ve done all or, Patrick, that you’ve done 160 of these.

Patrick: Yeah, over 160. And I can tell you, a couple of years ago, I didn’t know if I’d get to episode four. But everybody thinks about, well, we need the equipment and the hardware and the products. No. It’s find out what you want to talk about, and then you’re if you look for, quite frankly, you find people that you never knew were around, like you that just to talk about your perspective on the business, in the industry.

There’s a huge, vibrant industry. There are all kinds of information, and we’re sharing with the community. I’ve a learned tremendous amount, and I sincerely, Mike, I don’t know about you, but if I could get paid for podcasting, I’d rather do this than the other gig I do. But I sincerely have a great time. So Mike Bego, where can people find out about the Secondary Day for registering and so forth?

Mike: Patrick, if someone wants to get into the Secondary Day that Kline Hill Partners throws, they can write to info@klinehill.com, and we’d love to hear from them.

Patrick: Fantastic. And also get to klinehill.com and you can see everything about Mike. Mike, the audience members can reach out to you personally on the website as well?

Mike: Sure. Yep, like please all inquiries are welcome. People want to sell their LP interests, line up. We’d love to work with you. Whatever you want to do. We would love to engage with you in the secondary industry.

Patrick: Mike Bego from Kline Hill Partners, again, you’re only the third repeat guest I’ve ever had, and it’s a sincere pleasure. Thank you for being here today.

Mike: Patrick, thank you.